Video of the forum; MassLive coverage
Testing mics. Larry Shetler immediately starts working the crowd, talking about how he volunteered in the beer tent at the Polish Festival. Gary Rosen orders an IMMEDIATE CESSATION OF MICS.
Maybe 75 people in audience? (More streaming in as we begin)
Panel: Kiernan Dunlop of Masslive, Hank Stolz, Gary Rosen
LOCATION OF THE BATHROOM is announced. Now that I am approaching menopause, I appreciate Gary’s restroom announcements. THERE ARE NO MALE BATHROOMS IN THE SCHOOL.
This race isn’t as contentious as the D5 race, but Gary reminds us NO ABUSE, NO BULLYING of any candidate by anyone.
Introductions
Larry Shelter: a retired person, grandfather, worked under late Mayor Cianci in Providence as asst director of planning and in econ dev. Wants to share some of interesting things he’s learned on the way and that concern many of his fellow senior citizens.
Dave Peterson, not Peterman: moved here in 2003, three-decker off of May Street. City has come a long way since poster of Judith Light. Has spoken with a lot of people – many have seen progress, some have concerns. Background is in entertainment/media, baseball – first foray into civics. 65% of people in country think USA going in wrong direction, trickles down to local. Bring positivity, optimism – always rooting for City of Worcester.
Jenny Pacillo: wants Worcester to be a place where kids, families, seniors can thrive. Part time editor of Pulse Mag, stay-at-home mom, LWV, on Citizens Advisory Council. Has personally knocked on 3000 doors. Being up here is a little scary. Partner Nate & her bought house, second masters degree in public admin. D1 neighborhoods are vibrant and diverse. Will prioritize transparency, city services, will always answer phone and listen.
Q to Shetler: D1 a lot of voters think race btw Peterson and Pacillo. How to stand out?
Shetler: as senior, concerns are more about what is it to help us in day to day life. What makes it happen for us – living within our budget. Potholes that cause you to spend Christmas money on car, you want to know why that is happening. We say, we’re still engaged – we may have lost a step but we’re not going to go quietly into the night. We have needs and concerns that should be addressed. I’m just another person in the race, not the third person.
Peterson: how to differentiate. Jenny’s and Larry’s background: both involved in politics before. I am very much a newcomer. Involvement in biz community, traffic, public safety, decided in Feb that he wanted to run. I don’t mind making fun of myself. What is a politician? He is fun, energetic – politics is lacking that. Wants to bring that with new ideas to City of Worcester. Now to do it in public as he has done in private industry.
Pacillo: Larry, you have not lost a step. I have been more involved in campaigns, important to be involved. Agrees with Dave – does not consider herself a politician. Very open and honest. Hard to present yourself as a super smart polished human. We all want that – just different ways of going about it.
Shelter: all about perspective. He wants to see Worcester vision and what we want to accomplish long term.
Q to Pacillo about video out there that is three years old, placed on Facebook. How to change city council, to turn it into a circus and have fun with it. “Just get people engaged.” Talk about video and address issues brought up in it.
Guy shouts at Pacillo about something, including people’s cars getting broken into – Gary tells him he came in late and reminds him of ground rules. NO ABUSE OF ANY CANDIDATE – JUST LISTEN FOR ANY CHANGE.
People are shouting at him to leave.
NO ONE HERE WANTS TO HEAR IT says Gary – much applause
Pacillo: I was in a comedy podcast. They were sarcastic comments about a generation different from mine – I think we’ve all made comments like this. If you want to know about how I feel, you can see what I’ve done. Has attended neighborhood meetings for 5.5 years. The people in there are some of my closest friends. You can ask everyone at the neighborhood watch meetings. City Council is not a joke. Appreciates that Hank watched the whole clip where she was more serious. She attends other meetings as well.
Peterson: he thinks there are issues – he makes a living entertaining people in a ballpark. In not one of those years, he has never made a disparaging comment about the ballpark. Does not agree that the city council is a circus. If he is elected, he will be serious and will restructure his professional career so it matches political career. Residents had cars broken into and that is serious. Make sure residents feel safe.
Shetler: I’m a singer and I’m real uncomfortable in this convo. If we’re going to talk about city council, we need to revisit plan E for Worcester. Time we discussed that. Should we have strong mayor? How has that come about? What will give us best return on investment? Would like to move on to more substantive issues.
Pacillo: I’m with Larry, let’s talk planning, let’s look at the charter.
Q to Peterson on dual tax rates. Neither residents or business owners pleased with results. Slowly work to eliminate dual tax rates?
Peterson: Yes, will take some time. When I started this race, have job growth. Lot of small businesses leave because commercial tax rate is so high, going over bridge to Shrewsbury. Almost everyone had a higher tax bill this year, not bc of tax rate but because of assessments. Need to look at too-high assessments, too many abatements needed. Commercial – typically pick up own trash, snowplow own property, no kids in schools. Treatment of commercial entities needs to be fairer.
Pacillo: as a homeowner, doesn’t want residential tax rates to increase – would need to look at it thoughtfully every year. Why are we hurting residents and businesses with flawed system? Idea: create intermediate tax level for LLCs and commercial landlords. Different tax level for owner-occupied. Regular landlords getting pushed by LLCs.
Shetler: you need a tax base, people willing to pay taxes that is bigger than where we are right now. Somehow we have to go into econ dev and think outside box. What to drive income into city so we don’t have to beat on you guys…residents will vote by their feet, no one will be left to pay taxes. At some point in time city will not make payroll.
Peterson: thinks by expanding entire tax base, lessens burden on residents. 22% of revenues came from commercial center – 36% of commercial in mid-1980s [before dual tax rate]
Q to Pacillo: speeding in the district, dangerous intersections.
Pacillo: I live on Clark Street, which is the Clark Street Speedway. Chester and Drummond have a number of accidents. Grove St is a state highway, need to work with MassDOT. WPD and Traffic Division work hard, would like Complete Streets program implemented. Concrete examples: bike lanes – when street is narrow, people are less likely to speed. Green infrastructure to beautify streets.
Peterson: speeding, condition of roads, Councilor Rose was asked for a stop sign, frustration from residents. Problem in city with advancing some of it through Traffic Committee, cars flying down Sagamore Road, can’t put speed bumps everywhere but not a bad idea for back roads. WPD has had 400 officers, increasing population – can’t expect them to do speed traps.
[Note: the WPD actually had more back in the 1960s when we had a smaller population]
Shelter: How did these people who don’t use turn signals get driver’s licenses? Take a look at who’s driving…they should use their mirrors.
Pacillo: we need better communication with residents – Bay State Road repaving 3x/3 years. Agrees with Peterson on that.
Q to Peterson: present cc debated for months on inclusionary zoning. How do you feel?
Peterson: we need enough affordable housing. What CC did is adequate for now, can’t scare away outside developers, want to incentivize 60% AMI units. Need to speed up process, less red tape, will encourage that development. Less than 2 spaces / apartment. Build units a little smaller, taller buildings, quicker approvals. Cannot scare away private development, this is what many developers feel when they hear inclusionary zoning.
Shetler: this discussion is much bigger than City Council, Worcester, Mass. New residents are coming. If you are an outside builder, question is – how am I going to pay, what is income stream, HUD financing. I’m very uncomfortable with inclusionary housing and want to know who you are including and excluding. He likes 62+ housing, doesn’t feel like he wants to share that. Doesn’t want to sound like he’s not a good person, but what about quality of life?
Pacillo: once again, example of needing to think outside of box. Friend would like accessory dwelling for her mother. We have so many manufacturing zones, why can’t we put housing in there? Need to look at things differently.
Peterson: in D1, not a lot of available land to build on. Doesn’t know if he’d be in favor of redevelop. 51 acres at Saint Gobain – doesn’t see that being developed to housing.
Q to Shetler: does city need design review board to evaluate exterior changes, major changes to existing bldgs., new construction?
Shetler: he wants to say yes but needs to be a thoughtful approach. If we have a design board, it should be a vision quest, what do you want to see in next 5-10 years, do pieces at a time. Doesn’t know very many people who want to vacation in Worcester for 3 days. What do you want community to be? Destination? Warm growing community? Industrial town? From city manager’s pov, mayor’s, have discussion about what we want to do, modify, meaningful bldgs.
Peterson: it seems like a bit redundant – renovating old mill buildings, new stretch code. Doesn’t know that we need a board to review the design of any new construction. Construction costs have gone way up – if we have a board that will approve or disapprove one of these buildings, adding costs unnecessarily to some new bldgs..
Pacillo: design review board – look to Worcester Now/Next, engaged community in accessible ways to get more community input. We need to add a staffer to purchasing and econ dev to make sure that projects go forward effectively and in fiscally responsible way.
Shetler: WE NEED ACTION. We talk things to death. Choose to do something that a large segment of the population can get behind and just do it.
Q to Peterson: Redevelopment of Saint Gobain. What would you like there? How as councilor to get that to happen?
Peterson: 51 acres, once in 100 years opportunity. We can turn it into jobs, foot traffic. I don’t know if it will fit, but would love to explore a movie studio, sound stages, adds to flights coming into airport, hotel rooms, that would spur job growth. Has been done successfully in Devens, outside of Atlanta (Tyler Perry). 4 sound stages, carpentry division.
Shetler likes the idea, anything there would be an improvement. It’s a brownfield and that will be a challenge. New owner will need to be indemnified.
Pacillo: has been going to Saint Gobain / WBDC meetings for over a year, not zoned for housing. They would like pad ready sites for manufacturing. Loves movie idea. Lots of people who work in this industry, props warehouse in the city.
Peterson likes to dream big. Land would still need to be big enough.
Q to Shetler: Plan E form of gov’t, charter review, but how is CM Batista doing? Do you wish to have charter review?
Shetler: doing a pretty good job, hasn’t personally met him. He’s doing the best he can without being given a lot of guidance from city council – no one has shared the dreams. He wants to do the right thing – now help him do it. Absolutely need to revisit the charter. City is dynamic, could be more dynamic, we need real sound leadership that comes from the grassroots. If you have strong mayor, the downside is absolute power corrupts absolutely. But real serious leadership needed to reach goals. Quit having meetings – some folks in charge need to get it done.
Pacillo: CM Batista has impressive background, likes that he worked his way up. Would love to see clear process for city manager search in the future. Thanks folks for applause, they are cutting into her time. For charter review, 100% – I love community listening sessions and community meetings. More people should share dreams – Portland ME worked hard to update charter.
Peterson: likes what the CM is doing. He wants to do what’s best for city. Has worked with him since 2014 on Bravehearts nights. One of things he’s done is reopen Homeownership Center at Oak Hill CDC – closed by Augustus. Plan E – lot of cooks in the kitchen, district and at-large school committee, seems like Worcester just chose everything. Needs to be refined, but not right away.
Shetler is a happy camper, likes what he hears, go forward and explore these things. We need to embrace a new thought process on the city charter.
Q to Pacillo: should CC defund the WPD? Return police to high schools as SROs? Civilian review?
Pacillo: I signed a defund petition in 2020 because of excessive use of force complaints – we are short on police, people are retiring, need to recruit people in new ways. Did WPD Civilian Academy. SROs removed in 2021, is a WPS mom, school safety is important. Adjustment councilors/social workers better equipped. Civilian review: doesn’t think it could ever happen. Would like to see inspector general model, not just for WPD but for all parts of gov’t.
Peterson: no to defund; SROs in schools – yes, place for kids to develop relationship with police officers; citizen review board good in theory, could potentially work, but we’d need citizens to be held accountable. Can’t be made of people with same opinions about police department.
Shetler: we’re going to fund police, resource officers back in school, no civilian review.
Pacillo: agrees with Dave – if there were civilian review, would need to be diverse, with police and community members. In a ridealong, a police officer said he’d be in a classroom where kids could have a low stakes conversation with him.
Q to Shetler: rise in unhoused population, yet many housing projects face opposition. What is councilor’s role? Will you stick by residents vs NIMBY?
Shetler: 70 [apologies, I originally wrote that as “7” but I misheard!] years ago was adopted by Mennonites, believes we are neighbor’s keeper. I don’t know what to do. There are needs out there. We have walked the streets, there is a need for shelter, there is a need to help people. How to balance that against really beautiful neighborhoods, around Zion Church. Doesn’t have the answer – it’s bigger than us. We don’t have the resources to help them.
Peterson: he is of opinion that we must care for and help our neighbor, but look out for homeowner. If we have 90 units in Quality Inn, security plan in place, resources for those living there. Ability for those to recover. Neighbors should be in constant contact, are there needles on the streets, are there people walking in the middle of traffic. When you want to house people who don’t have housing, must give them all resources to become productive members of society again.
Pacillo: has attended Northern Lincoln St meetings for a couple of years off and on, they are skeptical of Oriol Drive, 24/7 services, people will have to apply. Is conflicted, understands that neighborhood has been through so much, people who put in hotel need to communicate the plan better, more transparently. Residents should be able to have their voices heard and know what’s going on in their neighborhood.
Shetler: tough to put kids and needle users together. To have coherent community survive. Common sense is being challenged. If you (audience) have better ideas, we would love to hear it.
Q to Pacillo about senior population. Underserved?
Pacillo: my grandparents were my best friends, my partner Nate teases me that my friends are all older. I genuinely care for seniors, in meetings has helped people, worked on Community Preservation Act, made sure Senior Center has info on how to be exempt. Wants seniors to stay in their homes, fare-free WRTA. Thinks seniors are very important.
Shetler: sometimes I think it’s underserved. It’s tough to transition from 55 to something else. I thought I had extra time, money, but it’s sad, health – does it stay up? Get to places, special bus service, do you have rides, facilities that can manage wheelchair and walker? Can you still cook for yourself, get to stove. Colony 1 and 2 have envisioned real quality of life aspects that enhance us as we get older.
Peterson: appreciates Larry’s transpo comments. At Willows, residents have to call a week in advance for van. Why not something that can be served by the WRTA? Offer seniors more opportunities to get out. Interested in city’s new franchise agreement with Spectrum, should include help for seniors, media center upgrades at senior center. Not just TV, to teach seniors to use internet, zoom with family.
Pacillo: we need to do a better job of communicating services to seniors and, like Larry said, listen to our seniors.
Now we have the candidates-talk-to-each-other part
Pacillo to Peterson: in interviews you have shared how busy your job is as GM of the Bravehearts – do you think it’s responsible for residents to not have city councilor three months out of the year?
Peterson: first of all, idea that I’m not accessible is not correct. Phone posted on website, only person who has done that. 508-556-4295 for a good time. Basically, being a city councilor is 80% reactionary, dealing with problems in neighborhoods. When residents call you, very reactionary. Campaigning is proactive, have to plan, make time to do door-knocking. Reactionary is when you are a city councilor. He responds to emails, answers phone calls, goes to lunch with you, and is a single man. If you call me at 9:30pm, I’ll answer.
Pacillo: finds the answer acceptable.
Shetler has a girlfriend. [This is related to Peterson being single]
Shetler: what is you would embrace that would make Worcester a destination for 2-3 days?
Pacillo: with Greendale revitalization projects, businesses are already there – need to be uplifted and highlighted more. Would like to get movie theater in the city. We would all like that. We have to go to Millbury or W Boylston to see a movie. If you want to go really crazy, Larry, I would love to have a roller skating rink in the city.
Peterson is told by Stolz that roller skating is great way to meet people.
Peterson: lots of growth in city, mostly in entertainment side. Ways for people to go to entertainment destinations. Taxes can’t increase on those – they will falter like Foothills Theater and like those before it. He just broke his leg in June so doesn’t think he can go rollerskating.
Peterson to Pacillo: in favor of lowest residential? If so, how would city make enough of tax revenue?
Pacillo: this is an issue every single year. We shouldn’t be pitted against each other. No reason why it needs to be like this. Research Bureau looked at ways to shrink this over a decade. Would like to figure out system in a new way.
Shetler: on one level, it’s kind of easy. But how do you get mix of residents and businesses? Gear up on bringing businesses here. Need to stroke them a little to meet their needs – bring employees to our great city. Then issues with diverse tax rates will go down.
Pacillo to Shetler – new Burncoat High School?
Shetler: not taxpayer for kids any more. Not sure what kind of education they’re getting there. Wondering if you’re going to get a return on investment. More students than we thought we were going to have. We haven’t embraced – with new immigrants coming in, we haven’t designed for capacity that we’re going to see. The few people who have grandkids in system wondering the same thoughts.
Peterson: in favor of a new Burncoat High School, some areas that have had mold remediation. Doherty finished next year. Projects are difficult to budget for, Burncoat needs to be next. Engage with colleges to help with programming at Burncoat because we will hit the enrollment cliff. Lowest college enrollments in 50 years beginning in 2026/27/28. He discussed bringing in Assumption or Anna Maria for a program.
[Has no one heard of the existing Early College Worcester programs?]
Shetler: new folks coming to town, will not have a shortage of students, will have a lot more younger students with a lot more needs. I don’t know how we’re going to deal with it – not sure how to manage future based on what we see. We need a new school, maybe [sic – I am sorry, this is disgusting, people]
Shetler doesn’t really have a question
Peterson to Shetler: I-290 to airport access road. Impossible without eminent domain.
Shetler: Yes, would love to take those houses by eminent domain. [Note: those houses are in D5. Screw you, Larry, focus on your own district] These people will need to play ball or something. [Sorry, I cannot deal with this jerk, guys.] We couldn’t connect the dots in the 1970s, there was a great bar there.
Pacillo: new idea to her. She will say no – eminent domain is a huge thing for people.
Shetler: when you start taking people’s property, that is a big deal. Yeah, we took property on 146. Not an easy discussion. Some great things like mall on 146, which we wish were further north.